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After a rough start due to overcapacity of the old county courtroom and then hours of bipartisan passionate testimony from local residents Thursday night against Flock cameras and other surveillance hardware and software, the Kosciusko County Council approved three motions to defund them.
The council can only withhold or defund the money that is spent on the technology. They can not cancel or make contracts, as that is up to the Kosciusko County Commissioners, Council President Tony Ciriello reminded the council virtually as he was not able to attend the meeting in person. “But the funding for it, we can control so that they can not spend that money on anything else,” he stated.
Councilman Will Stockdale made the three motions that were approved 5-0, with the crowd applauding each one.
His first motion was “we withhold any funding for any ALPR cameras or other similar surveillance equipment out of any county-controlled fund, whether using taxpayer dollars, user fees, grants or any other public money.”
The second motion was to “withhold any funding of Axon Justice out of any county fund or any other similar digital evidence management platform without specific council approval.”
Stockdale reiterated the council can only pull or withhold funding and not break contracts or pull the cameras down. A policy ban would come from the commissioners, whose next meeting is scheduled for 9 a.m. Sept. 22 in the old courtroom.
The third motion was to not fund “surveillance technologies including, but not limited to, signal trace, drones, gunshot detectors, mobile or stationary ALPRs, new video cameras or cell-site simulators without specific county council approval.” The motion does not apply to existing cameras in county-owned buildings.
Sheriff Jim Smith asked for a clarification on the third motion and if that included body cameras for the jail officers and patrol officers and drones that have already been approved. Stockdale amended his third motion so it did not include body cameras worn by officers or jailers or the cameras in the jail and dash cams in the police vehicles. His amendment was approved.
The meeting was scheduled to begin at 6 p.m., but the old courtroom has a maximum capacity of 120. Anywhere from 30 to 80 people were kept out of the room once that limit was reached and the fire marshal didn’t allow the meeting to begin until the area outside of the room and down the stairs was cleared out.
“We are at capacity. We have some people that are refusing to leave the exit area, and the fire marshal says that until they move out of the exit area, we can not start this meeting, so there’s going to be a bit of a delay,” County Administrator Marsha McSherry announced.
Eventually, the public who could not be in the courtroom were taken to the county annex building to watch the livestream. If they wanted to speak, they were then taken to the courthouse for their turn. Throughout the meeting, some people could still be heard from outside of the room making their thoughts known.
Speakers were given 5 minutes to speak and were asked not to be repetitive. However, before the public comments started, Sheriff Smith read a statement, Prosecuting Attorney Brad Voelz - who had put together a panel for the meeting - gave his remarks and Capt. Paul Heaton from the Warsaw Police Department and Lt. Josh Spangle from the Sheriff’s Department tried to explain how they use the cameras and what security measures are in place.
In part, Smith said he was aware of the concerns raised in the community and they deserved to be heard and taken seriously.
“One of the greatest concerns is the potential for misuse. I share that concern. Each time I hear about an officer or dispatcher misusing this technology across the nation, I’m angry, disappointed and deeply troubled. Misuse damages the public’s trust and reflects poorly on the many law enforcement professionals who have used these tools responsibly,” he said.
At the same time, Smith stated he believes strongly in law and order and giving investigators effective tools to protect the people they serve. He said Flock has helped law enforcement in many ways, such as locating suspects, and license plate readers have also helped locate missing or abducted children. He said he supports stronger statewide legislation for license plate readers and listed what legislation could address.
Ciriello asked Smith if Flock was not funded, how would it affect his department and the way it operates.
“If their decision tonight is to not fund Flock, the sheriff’s office will not be moving forward with Flock,” Smith said.
Voelz explained what the county’s cameras do and how images of license plates are deleted after 30 days. He said a Flock committee, chaired by his office, was put together to guard against things such as misuse. It includes leadership from WPD, the KCSO and the town departments.
Phil Arnold, public affairs for safety manager for Flock, also was part of the panel to answer questions as they arose, but most of his answers were rejected by the crowd including that Flock cameras can’t do facial recognition because the cameras don’t even see a face - they see the back of a car.
Resident Jodi Cox presented a petition with over 1,000 names.
She spoke about the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020, face masks and how the rules kept changing. “The government decided what was essential for us. Liquor stores were opened while churches were closed. These restrictions were imposed and enforced by government officials. This poster here reminds us that these mandates were only six years ago,” Cox said, in part, while her daughter held up the poster with a quote from Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear from CNN on license plates being recorded.
She said she began to feel that her liberties that she always took for granted were being challenged. The informed choices she wanted to make for herself and her family were “no longer ours to make.”
She referenced the U.S. Constitution, World War II and the fight for freedom, and said their First Amendment right allows them to speak out in defense of their Fourth Amendment right.
Local attorney Travis J. McConnell said, “This country was founded by stubbornly free people, and I mean that as a compliment, and I wish I had my panel but they’re outside being stubbornly free, yelling into this building, along with those of us in this room.”
Monica Boyer said she supported defunding Flock, but “let’s be honest. Defunding one item means very little if money can be spent and simply moved to another account. Questions have been raised about Ordinance 25.04.25.001 and its provision allowing expenditures without appropriation. As of tonight, the public has not been shown what exception allowed that money to be spent without an appropriation. Maybe that answer exists. If it does, show us.”
Even if the funding method is legal, Boyer said that does not make it right.
She talked about how the three local parties - Libertarian, Republican and Democrat - are all standing together against the cameras.
“Privacy is not partisan. Privacy, freedom is not partisan. Government transparency is not partisan. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue. Defund Flock. Close the funding loophole that you have. Bring every single surveillance subscription into daylight. Give the people a voice before another dollar is spent,” she stated.
Chris Plack talked about how trust has been broken. “With Flock, we were continously told, just focus on the camera taking a picture of a license plate on a public road. That’s all you have to focus on. But the camera’s never been the issue. The data is the issue. The searchable network is the issue. Access, sharing and accountability have always been the issues,” he stated.
Cassie Rolon said all three major political parties were represented at the meeting, “standing together in unison on this issue. That should tell you something about how strongly your constituents feel.”
Like Boyer, she also questioned the legality of the Flock Camera Fund and how expenditures could be made out of it without appropriation.
County Auditor Alyssa Schmucker said the county was looking into it.
Nearly 20 other people spoke before Councilman Dave Wolkins said everyone has made their point and they won the case. He was ready for a motion to be made and voted on, which Stockdale did after hearing from a couple other people.
